Andrew Jones on John Piper on Emerging Church
Just a link to this post by the itinerant Tall Skinny Kiwi, giving a wider perspective to Piper's interesting video piece.
Nice work!

UPDATE
Andrew has another post adding balance to his previous one. Again helpful thoughts!

Plus more storms for Piper for inviting Rick Warren to speak at a conference.See Scot Mcknight's thougts here

New Church Forms
When I started this blog in 2004 part of exploration in thinking was around emerging church, new ways of church etc. Since then courses have developed (such as Cliff College's MA) to equip and resource people around the emerging church and contextualising church in a 21st century mission context (or before anyone else points it out, to think about how church flows from mission in this context).

And new experiments are happening.
And all this is definitely different in the UK than USA (even the language has different overtones).

But I was beginning to wonder what ever happened to this thing.Various people have commented how the "movement" has changed (see Andrew Jones post here).
And then I was encouraged at Baptist Union Council to hear a re-newed emphasis on church planting. Perhaps easier to encourage then resource? Never the less the intention seems to be there.

And "inherited" churches seem to be talking at least about being more intentionally missional.

Not sure where I'm going with this, other than I was struck by a post from an old mate Michael.
It's on an Anglican site and is undoubtedly Anglican-centred. But here's a quote that struck something, it kind of makes me go "Yes, but...":
"There is no doubt that new times call for new ways of being church. The new country stands before us, but the whole church must make the journey into it. For those whose understanding of the times gives them a sense that perhaps they can see a little further ahead, there is always the temptation to rush on alone or with a few others in tow. But what seems to be required at this point is patient endurance that is held in tension with prophetic creativity. If pioneers catch glimpses of the new country, then they must speak of it wisely."

Baptist Ecclesiology
Interesting article on US Baptists and emerging church in the Baptist Standard (ht to Andrew for link).
Love this phrase from the final paragraph:
"Baptist history might offer an alternative explanation—ecclesiology is more defined by the practices of a Spirit-led community than by assent to the statements of a modern theological meta-narrative...the emerging church movement may provide hope for reformation to Baptists ignorant of the difference between modern truths and Truth incarnate"

The challenge of ethnodoxology
Been thinking about worship in a multicultural city such as London, a bit this week. Partly prompted by stuff from my dissertation a couple of months back, partly by some colleagues and partly by some input from Muyiwa at our worship training day last week.

I think the answer may partly lie in encouraging home-grown worship, both in music and beyond.
To encourage communities to express worship in songs that are birthed from within the community rather than simply buy the latest "Now that's what I call worship" type CD. Or at least take existing songs and use them as tools rather than recreating the "album version" like a dodgy covers band.

Confession: I'm actually a big consumer of worship music, I own lots of albums (it helps to have a producer friend), and hunt for free stuff online. But I know at the same time I have gotten lazy and have not written any music for a long while. Pete Ward charts the rise and place of the worship music industry well in Selling Worship, which I shall add to my re-read list!

Rambling thoughts I fear, but helping people authentically express worship is a huge thing. I think music and singing do still (and always will) be a key part of that, if only we can be willing to move beyond our own narrow expectations.

Church for Everyone?
On Saturday I went over to East London for the "Church for Everyone" conference. Dr Bruce Milne was teaching some stuff, based mainly on his book Dynamic Diversity. The book draws heavily on Ephesians, arguing that in Christ we are no longer divided, we are a "new humanity" , therefore churches should be "new humanity churches" and reflect this, bridging all cultures, generations, socio-economic divides etc.
I find his arguments quiet convincing, and a helpful counter to the "Homogeneous Unit Principle" (for discussion on that see here).

I guess for me the key question is about what we need to do all together and what can be done in separate groups. Can we really hold diverse cultures, generations etc. together in one worship service? Is such an approach missionally viable? How does specific-group mission relate to gathering as church?
Of course these arguments have been rehearsed many times before, but "on the ground" how do we work it out? Is "niche" church the way forward, or perhaps this idea from Steve Collins (which I've probably mentioned before).

Probably more posts on this in time, as it's the backbone of my dissertation...

Church Trends
Two questions in my mind today, which I have blogged about in passing before:
i) Has the trend for churches employing paid youth workers/ministers plateaued and is now declining?
ii) Has the trend for"youth church" and planting church in youth culture and among teenagers largely dwindled too (being replaced by "emerging church" and other emphasis)?

Both seem to be happening from a "gut feel", chatting to people perspective, but I've no empirical evidence. 5 years ago both things were definately on the agenda, I'm just not sure they are now...

Poster
This graphic amused me.
I'll reserve making comment at this stage...
I found it at Way of the Master

5 fold?
I've not read too much by Frank Viola, but I know he's quite popular with some in thinking about organic church etc.
Just read his thoughts on "5 fold ministry" and apostles - it's a helpful article (here), especially the first bit describing the history of the notion of "restoring the gifts".
Not sure I buy into his "organic vs organisation" type contrast, although I should probably read more before judging (but it did remind me a bit of some of the stuff by Gene Edwards).

Church Bashing
How we (me too!) need to get beyond moaning and bashing the existing church, to something more. To go beyond the "what if's", but to love it as is.
Here's a quote:
"At that moment, we decided to stop complaining about the church we saw and we set our hearts on becoming the church we dreamed of" (Shane Claiborne, The Irresistible Revolution, p64)

Youth Church (2)
Following up the last post on the youth church thing.
Jonathan suggested that the shift in emphasis from "youth church" to "emerging church" was about a:
"discovery that the need for new ways of doing and being church was felt not just by young people but also by older generations. So the distinguishing factor ceased to be age, and became outlook, approach, style"
That kind of summarises how my personal thought process, from working with youth to asking bigger "church" questions. I hope that is the reality in terms of youth church, but the cynic in me wonders if it is still about trends and bandwaggons?

In terms of how I answered some of the questions I was asked, here are my quick thoughts:

• How would you define a youth church? What distinguishes it from a “normal” multi-generational church?

For me the definition of a youth church is an attempt to inculturate the Gospel and function as a church within the structures and paradigms of a particular localised youth culture.

I think it was Graham Cray who suggested something like that we think in terms of these being the first churches of a new generation rather than a single generation church.

They differ from multi-generational churches by being focused on the culture and patterns of young people and youth culture, although there may be older people who relate more to such an expression than they do existing “inherited” churches.

• From your experience and observation, are most youth churches in England youth groups of existing churches who want their own worship service or are they church plants into the youth culture?

At the moment most are congregations of existing churches. This is far more common than church planting.

There have been some attempts to plant, but usually out of strong relationship with the “mother” church

More for another post I think!

Youth Church
10 years ago the notion of "Youth Church" was very much the in thing. Since then we've gotten all "emerging" and "fresh expression"/"mission shaped".
So has the idea of youth church plateaued? Are people still intentionally doing this? And is this just about "trends" or the product of robust theological and missiological thinking?
I've been asked some questions to help some research, and a couple of other conversations have bought this up. Here are some of the questions - in case anyone has better answers than me:

• How would you define a youth church? What distinguishes it from a “normal” multi-generational church?
• Can you summarize quickly what is happening in this scene of youth churches globally?
• How have leaders in this movement handled the concept of youth church theologically and ecclesiologically?
• Are youth churches making the transition into multi-generational churches? If not, what happens to them?
• Are most youth churches in England youth groups of existing churches who want their own worship service or are they church plants into the youth culture?

I'll post my answers when I've formulated them a bit better!

Quick Quote
I'm officially "on holiday", but still trying to keep on top of my next college assignment.
Just came across this quote:
"A vigorous emerging church thus formulates its beliefs, and even its basic theology, according to immediate local needs and pressures, rather than waiting for the approval of venerable and distant mentors. What the"mainstream" church thinks is not terribly important for them, and mainstream is a designation that changes over time" (Philip Jenkins, The Next Christendom, p139).
I think it applies to the "emerging church" in the post-modern West as much as expressions birthed elsewhere.

Is it that simple?
Just been reflecting on the previous post and some other stuff (e.g. this paper I wrote).
What if the following is an answer to a question I get asked (and I'm sure other youthwork people do):
Q:"What's the answer to keeping young people in church"
A: Church

or
Q:"What's the key to attracting young people to our church" [horrible wording but it's what people say]
A: Church

Surely the answer is in the practice and relationships of being the church of God: Father, Son and Spirit?

Technique
Couple of things have led me to thinking about this.
Wednesday I went on the annual trip to the Christian Resources Exhibition.
It struck me that if all the courses, ideas and "stuff" worked then we should have a thriving church in the UK! (With nice chairs, folding tables and a glass lectern!)

Today I was at something called the London Urban Theology Project, a bunch of people presenting papers for discussion around ministry in London. It was stimulating stuff! One of those papers echoed this idea suggesting that the ABC for many churches has become "Attendance, Buildings and Collection". We focus on style and technique, programme and things rather than attending to the hard work of being church.

This echoes a lot with the call for community and authenticity in some of the stuff around emerging missional church. Yet in so many areas of church life (youth ministry is a classic example) we seem to lack the time or imagination to do anything other than buy an "off the shelf" solution.

I often wonder if some churches do "projects" to avoid really doing mission! Being "missional" is much more intrusive.

Renegotiating
During the writing of my essay I dipped back in to James Thwaites' Renegotiating the Church Contract.
I actually got more out of it than when I read it previously. Along with The Church Beyond the Congregation it outlines Thwaites' theory that church has been infected with a platonic leaven! A dualism based on the influence of Plato's ideas has led the church away from what it was intended to be. We have become used to the church as "construct" rather than seeing it as the body of believers filling creation. (There is a more substantial review here).
To be honest I think he overstates the case, and neglects Christendom and modernity, putting everything down to this platonic stuff.
But it makes for some interesting thoughts about church.
Couple of quotes:
"For years they have heard sermons that speak of being on the verge of radical change, and nothing has changed. We need to forgive them if they are not moved by the promises in our preaching anymore" (p187).
"most church leaders are too busy looking after meetings in the household to become one with the church as fullness"

Gone!
My Cliff College assignment has been posted - now I'm at the mercy of the postal system! The next job will be to get my office back into some kind of order, and catch up on the filing (oh joy!).

The question was "Can an inherited church become an emerging church?". To summarise what took me the best part of 7000 words - I think yes, but it's a painful slow journey.
There are some great stories on the Roxburgh Journal about churches that have made the journey to becoming missional. I think we do need people to pioneer new things "on the edge" as it were, but I don't buy into the notion that we should always go for birth over resurrection. I think we need both/and.

Becoming Missional
'Leaders become permissional and missional when they:
1)Become less purpose-driven and more dream sensitive
2) Create an atmosphere of inquiry rather than one where questions are stifled.
3) Help others "colour outside the lines" rather than looking for prefabricated performances'
(from Cooke & Goodell: Permission Granted to do Church Differently, p94).

Is there a tension between leading people somewhere and being releasing or is that merely based on modern mechanistic notions of going somewhere, and mission as based on programmes and "attraction"?

Emerging youth?
Guest poster Dean posts "Are our teens emerging too" over at Jason Clark's blog.
He seems to be writing from a US perspective, but asks interesting questions.
If we're re-imagining church, who are we re-imagining it for?
In the UK I think a lot of people have arrived at some of the "emerging church", missional questions through youth ministry, so the perspective is different.
But how do new communities genuinely include children and young people?

Random Thoughts on Community
Reading some of the emerging church literature for college presents you with this kind of caricature contrast:
Inherited church= Meetings focus
Emerging church= Community focus

I guess things are not that simple in reality, and community was one of the strong values of the “house church” movement (UK 1970’s-80’s), as well as being an emphasis of the cell church people.
Anyway it got me thinking about community. Just this morning I was reminiscing about the community of my teenage years – like many teens it was a tight knit group hanging out.
Then at Uni the CU group was a great example of Christian community, sharing meals and lives.
Since then other youthworkers, colleagues and church in different ways has been places and expressions of community. Different things for different stages of life I guess.

Having a kind of “itinerant” ministry it can be easy to be disconnected. My natural inclination is to ask as to why other people are not looking me up, making sure I’m ok, praying for me etc., but then I ask myself how much am I doing that for others?

Anyway random thoughts – but authentic community seems to be something Christians (including myself) are often better at talking about than doing, whether your church is established or emerging.

And if you knew me from TVUCU or from youth and you stumble across this blog leave a comment or mail me – be great to hear from you!

Inside the Organic Church
Like every good conference, there was a bookroom at the Matrix. I picked up a copy of Bob Whitesel's Inside the Organic Church.
The book is a pretty good, short, easy to read description of Bob's journey to 12 emerging churches. 10 of the churches are US based. It's not an in depth book like Gibbs and Bolger's, but gives a good flavour, an introduction to some expressions of emerging church. My only concern is that people could read the book and look at his lessons from each church and miss the point totally by using them as a programme or way to change worship (he is very clear that that is not what he wants people to do).
One of the most helpful things in the book is a chart contrasting Institutionalization with Improvisation (which came out of his observations at Solomon's Porch).
He suggests:
"My observations led me to believe that the organic church sees effectiveness (connecting people to Christ) as trumping efficiency (doing it in the most programmatic and premeditated way possible).Thus improvisation...must be preferred over a propensity to execute things perfectly" (p118)